Moving Beyond One-to-One: My Journey to Creating a Group Program for Co-Parents

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Private Practice Academy Podcast. This episode is brought to you by Moonraker ai. They help therapists like you get found online through Smart Done for you, SEO. That actually works.

Welcome to the Private Practice Academy Podcast, where we share the formula for building and scaling a sustainable and profitable group practice without sacrificing your freedom and life in the process. I'm Kirsten Anderson Ridge, and I'm a clinical and counseling psychologist and business mentor. And I'm passionate about helping you to create, build, and sustain a profitable private practice.

I've made the leap from solo practitioner to group practice owner and created my own separate income stream. I'll share with you how to have a successful group practice and the time to create other income streams without feeling we have to choose between one or the other. [00:01:00] I'm going to share my journey and invite other therapists to share theirs.

So you too can create the practice you've always desired. If you are ready to start making your practice work for you, you are in the right place. Let's dive in.

Welcome back to the Private Practice Academy podcast. I'm really excited to be sitting down today with the one and only Tiffany Rochester, who is a clinical psych and head coach at Co-parenting companion. She has worked with clients in the family court system for many years. She has been a pioneering force in transforming approaches to co-parenting post separation.

Tiffany supports parents to raise children in one family across two homes.

Now, Tiffany and I met a few years back and we ended up having a [00:02:00] mutual supervisee, and as a result we ended up having a few chats on the phone and getting to know each other. So welcome Tiffany. Thanks so much

Tiffany Rochester: Kirsten. It's a real, real joy to be here.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Yeah. Thanks for coming on. Well, I have been watching your transformational journey from doing one-to-one therapy to becoming a coach in the co-parenting space, and I am so keen to know what, uh, led you to move away from the one-to-one therapy and move into the co-parenting space specifically.

Tiffany Rochester: It's been somewhat of a rollercoaster, mostly e exciting and sometimes breathtakingly scary.

Um, and I think in terms of what led me to move into this space is I was serving families that were involved in conflict, involved in the family court system, and. There were several things that were consistently coming up, and one of them was about [00:03:00] how many thousands and thousands of dollars they were spending trying to find some kind of resolution.

And where that money was coming from often was their, their own parents' superannuation funds. And what wasn't happening was really beautiful family holidays with their kids or being able to, you know, maybe not even a family holiday, but a, a Friday night movie night with their, their kids. And so it was looking at that.

That financial restriction that they had because they were spending money in all the wrong places, but also looking at how isolated and lonely they were, how often I was hearing the same stories from people over and over again, but they weren't getting to hear them from each other and feeling like we were coming in far too late in the process to help these families.

They've been doing it tough and been stuck in comp for far too long. I'm a big believer in systemic change. Mm. And it just felt too, too drip feed, too slow, uh, and [00:04:00] nowhere near enough impact for the amount of change that I could see was needed to still be doing this in a one by one fashion. I, I really love bringing people together.

I love, um, I, I deeply believe and see that people travel further faster when they travel together. And so it was time to, to pivot, to offer something that was more accessible and affordable to families that was also going to deliver better outcomes. It was a much healthier fit for me.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Mm, that's amazing because I think what you are talking about there is so obvious, really, but I suppose until you're in that space.

We actually, and it's like that with a lot of things, but in particular this, you really don't know what you are up for and what's involved. And financially you are moving from often two incomes to one, and then you are left with needing the support but not often being able to access it. And [00:05:00] I guess given you'd been in the family court system for quite some time, it was quite a, a natural progression for you anyway.

Tiffany Rochester: Look, I think it was in that arena. I've always, my work has always been about families and particularly creating healthy context for children. And when I look at what our colleagues are doing out, out across the breadth and uh, depth of family space, there's a lot of stuff for intact families. But it is definitely the families that are raising kids across two homes that are.

Are really missing out. And as you mentioned there, people often, often going from two, it comes down to one, but it's at the same time that they're going from one household to two mm. So all of the expenses are different and overwhelmingly frightening in those first, in those first few years, and particularly in those first few months.

So, uh, yeah, it was, was really important I thought, to serve that community.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: from what I am seeing and hearing, you are a hundred percent doing that. [00:06:00] So that's amazing. And tell me, on a personal level, was it difficult for you to move from that one-to-one? Into a different space because like most of us as Sykes, we do the one-to-one for many, many years.

And some, some people do it forever, and that's okay too. But there's quite a few of us who think, oh, for a number of reasons, there can be burnout, there can be needing change, different ways of doing things, different challenges, all those kinds of things. But how was it for you to move, move away from, from that, I guess in some ways safe space.

Tiffany Rochester: Yes, look, the first word that came up for me was liberating. And, and the part that was liberating was, was moving into the coaching model rather than the therapy model. And that was very deliberate because I, I had been providing family therapy to separate a families. [00:07:00] And it was the wrong solution. They, they didn't need therapy together individually, often, yes, of course, because there's a huge amount that that happens in that space.

So I'm, I'm a huge fan of people having a therapist to do their work. But, but together, they needed coaching. They needed new skill development, uh, focus specifically around how do you raise a, a two home family? And that's not a therapy thing. That's a, that's a coaching thing. That's a coaching skill. And so to be able to step fully into that space to, to be able to say, this is what I offer.

I will help you with that co-parenting relationship, and to have that quite boundary meant that I knew exactly what I was offering and what I wasn't. I think that. The harder part in terms of there, there is a safety in one-to-one. Um, because the only needs I have to care about are the needs of the person sitting in front of me and, and that's that there's a very lovely luxury, I think in that space for us.

I, I think that often when I've gone to speak to teachers at schools that I'm [00:08:00] saying, I only have to think about that one person in front of me. You have to think about 29 of them. But when we into that group space, we do have to think about how we are managing all of those. All of those people to make sure that we are caring for them, uh, that they're getting their needs met.

And particularly with this population, I had to think a lot about who could I serve in a group context and how could I, how could I protect each of them so that they could do the growth and change that they needed without having to air out their dirty laundry for everybody And, yeah. Because so many people have trauma as part of their story in a relationship breakdown, to also create spaces that were protected so that they, that the experience of bringing the group together would be the experience of uplifting each other, but not vicariously exposing each other to trauma.

So figuring out that pivot, I think was quite. Um, that, that took a, a lot of headspace, [00:09:00] a lot of head space to think about that. Uh, so we, we have tackled that in looking at how do we get our messaging out there in the first place to make it clear who is a good fit for what we offer. I think it's really important.

I don't wanna take money from people that I can't serve in the way that they need. They, they, their systems are failing them on, on enough levels. I don't wanna be a part of that. No. Uh, but the other part then was looking at. In our model for our group programs, we have some of it delivered as online content and other parts where we bring the group together.

So the, the parts where they're likely to do a lot of deep reflection and, and personal growth and change can happen. In the privacy of their home, home where nobody else is watching. And then when we bring them together for the group call, they've had a time to think about what is it that they would like to share?

What are the questions that they would like to ask, and how can they do that in a way that feels good and safe for them? And we have some clear parameters for the group as well [00:10:00] around how we talk about the things that are difficult, so that needs are met and privacy is maintained. Mm,

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: that sounds amazing.

Mm, okay. So I, it very much sounds to me like a lot of thought has gone into this, and it's something that is often never done quickly. Is it? It's, it's a time thing and it evolves, doesn't it? So I think that it's an amazing service that, that you offer and. It. I also sort of think, I think, did you use the word, did you say the word relieved?

Is that what she said? Or liberated? Liberating. Liberated, liberating. Yes, yes, yes. And I think it, I think it, it absolutely is. So I, I totally understand that. And I guess looking at that then. You've definitely, I guess you've done an amazing [00:11:00] job pivoting and scaling your business as a psych as well. Beyond that one-to-one model, what steps did you take to get there and what mindset hurdles were there to work through?

Tiffany Rochester: Look, it's not for the fainthearted. No. Um, and, and I think it's where, um, where services like what you offer Kirsten, are so important because it is really important to have the support and resourcing of, of a coach, uh, a mentor, somebody who has already done those yards and knows. You know, to, to show you where the pointy paths are or the, the rows to not go down.

Um,

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: yeah,

Tiffany Rochester: that has been absolutely invaluable. And then again, in terms of group programs, that has been very useful for me, that, that in all of the coaching that I've received, that's been in a group context where. I'm moving forward with other people who are also wanting to create [00:12:00] impact at scale. And so there's good company for my journey through that.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: Um, I think in terms of hurdles there, there are a lot because we are taught so much about how to serve people once they come through our doors.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Yes.

Tiffany Rochester: But we are not taught about how to get them through our doors in the first place. And when we are in private practice. Especially when we're in a mental health crisis, that comes easily for us If we're in private practice and we let a few gps know that we are there, clients just come, come on down.

That's right. Exactly. It's very little you need to do to fill it, to fill a caseload for one-to-one. It's different when you move into the coaching space and it's different when all of a sudden it's a much larger number of people that you can serve and want to serve and. Knowing how to tell people. I, I think, oh, I think some of it probably is Australian culture as well.

We're not good at talking [00:13:00] about. This is what I offer and this is how Kabam a good choice for you. That part, learning how to do that. Um, I, I no longer find marketing a gross concept. I think how on earth can people know what I offer if I don't get out there? But that was a huge hurdle, the idea of. The idea of Instagram and reels and showing up.

Um, the idea of conversations like this, they were all, um, all terrified, which is hilarious because as you can see, I clearly love to talk. Uh, but in terms of the mindset shifts, those were some the ones I had to make that, that if I actually wanted to breathe life into this, I was gonna have to get out of my own way.

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Yes, and I, I understand and [00:15:00] completely relate to what you're saying because in a therapy, one-to-one environment, it's even in that space. We don't act like we are the leader of the, of the session. We are on a journey with the client and. If we suggest that we are going to take people on a journey in our marketing, I think that would appeal to some.

But what we need to be able to do is we need to tell a story about where we've come from, what nailing what people's pain points are, and telling them how we help and solve those. Mm. And standing up and saying. We are the best fit is probably against two aspects of our personalities and also our guidelines.

Um, because, you know, in a therapy session we [00:16:00] can't sit and say, gosh, we are the expert in this. And it almost feels foreign to say we are an expert because what sometimes does that even mean? But when we are marketing, if we don't explain, show up. Let people know what we do and how we help. We are not, we are not, I guess we're certainly not, uh, leading people into somewhere where they're not going in with their eyes open, and we are not suggesting that we are better than others.

But we, what we are suggesting is that this is. What we can do, this is what we can help you solve. And the way to do that is to speak with authority, which unfortunately in our, um, uni degrees and also with our connection with our governing body, that tends to mean that that can be a bit of a challenge.

And it is a challenge being on Instagram and doing reels and [00:17:00] doing all the things. I certainly remember the first time I did it and thought to myself. Goodness. Goodness me. However, we move past it, we do it. And the thing that I think is really important to always remember when we are scaling our practice beyond one-to-one is impact.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We can make a greater impact in a group than we can in a one-to-one basis, because we can only see one person at a time.

Yeah.

If we've got a group happening, we are servicing many people at a time. And like you sort of said, people tend to move when they're, when they're together.

Tiffany Rochester: And it's more important now than ever, isn't it?

Because we are in a cost of living crisis at the moment, and one-to-one therapy is, and particularly with the, the Medicare rebates, they're not going up at the, at the rate. No. Our own cost of living and business is going up. No. And, and so. So private practice settings become a luxury for the wealthy and I did not get into this business to, so I, I mean, I [00:18:00] care for the wealthy when they're having a hard time for sure.

Uh, they are as human as everybody else, but that isn't the the minority that I wanted to serve. And. So if we actually are serious about helping people, it's not just about hoping that the government increases Medicare rebates because we are still, the one-to-one is still slow, there's still not enough of us for the scale of work that is there to be done.

So we do need to pivot. We do need to be able to do one to many. And I think, you know, when you're talking about the, the journey that we go on with our clients, uh, versus whether we present ourselves as the expert, and I think our clients really need both. If I look at. Any, anyone who is trying to raise their kids and two home family, I can't tell them what to do.

I can't tell them what's right for their kids. Who am I to know that I often don't even meet the children, so I can't, I can't put that upon them. They are the experts in their lived experience, their history with their co-parent, who their children are. I am an expert in child [00:19:00] development

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: and

Tiffany Rochester: I'm an expert in seeing what works well and knowing what works well to support healthy attachment, healthy development.

If you wanna have 50 50 shared custody, I can tell you a bucket load of data on how that can work and when it doesn't work well, so that people can avoid those pitfalls. And yes, they should know. They should know what the advantage is of involving an expert in child development compared to, for example, an expert in law, um, in their, in their matter.

Um, but that doesn't mean that. I have all the answers for them. I, I'm only useful if they bring their expertise and their knowledge and their experience, and we work together as a team.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that what we as psychologists do now, as opposed to what we might have done in the very early days, is we think more broadly about how we help.

And that is something [00:20:00] that I think is becoming more of a thought pattern process that psychologists are more able to take on board and are taking on board and moving with, even though I know for most people it's. Quite, quite a challenge. And like you said, it takes a few, few rounds of the, the mindset turntable to, to move through those things.

And while we're talking about that, for those psychologists that have been thinking about scaling and moving past the one-to-one space, what, what, you know, tips would you give them to move beyond the one-to-one?

Tiffany Rochester: Resource yourself with a really good community and good support. Um, I think, I think it's really important to have clarity about who it is you want to [00:21:00] serve and what is the impact that you want to have.

So if you're coming at it from the perspective of, I would really like to only work one day a week and live on a yacht. Um, so how do I do a one to many offer so that I can work less and be wealthy? I think you're probably coming in at. From the wrong space and you probably will fail. Um, but if, if it's that there's not a quick get rich, quick strategy, you know, I want to no switch.

But I think if, if it's from the mindset of I really care about creating impact, I really got into this business to create serious change in people's lives without burning myself out to look out what is it that lights you up? What is the work that that best serves you because. There are many areas where you could do a one to, to many offer, but there is a lot of front work.

There is a lot of hard yards. It's worth it. Uh, when I think about it, it's been worth every part of it, but it, it's not as as simple, easy, you know, wake up and here's this, here's this great, [00:22:00] um, no, you know, group thing that I'm doing. And so to be really committed to this is who I wanna serve and this is how I wanna serve them.

I think that keeps you steady. If you're strong and your wife or for. How come it's worth that hard jacker? Mm-hmm.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: And I think anything that is worthwhile is worth a hard jacker and is often involving hardaker.

Tiffany Rochester: Yeah. Yeah. Like there's not, you, you mentioned earlier about how it takes a lot of of work and I was thinking, uh, I think about these people.

All of the time. Um, tiny bit of time when I'm thinking about my children, but the rest of the time, you know, as I go off to sleep at night, wake up in the morning, like it's, it is this constant thought of what else can we do? How can we serve them? Can we meet these needs better? What else would be more useful?

So, so I had to go into this area because I was thinking about them all the time anyway.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Mm-hmm. But I can't

Tiffany Rochester: think about everybody at that level. Uh, so I, I had to choose, I had to choose an area. I had to choose a population and, and knowing. Who, who that is makes that much [00:23:00] clearer, which made me think about when we do know who we want to serve and we do start showing up on social media, that is, I think we can get over the mindset of, well, what will people think of what I do in this reel?

And what if I get negative comments and what have you? Because, uh, I know that when I'm showing up anywhere. That I wanna speak to the people that I serve. Mm-hmm. And it is really useful. Like if I offend some people, some people listen to me and they go, I'd ever, I don't wanna go anywhere near Tiff. That is awesome.

Because, because I'm not the right fit for them. So it is fantastic if some people are frustrated and annoyed along the way because they should not come to see me and the people who are listening and going, that is. No, like you're my person that that's a good fit. Well, then fantastic because they've been able to check me out before they come me.

So I think when we are clear on who we want to serve, we can let go of worrying about whether or not we offend people or upset people because we are only trying to reach the people that we care to be with.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Mm. Yeah, I, I fully, fully agree with that. A [00:24:00] hundred percent. Yes. I thought you might. Yep. Because there's nothing worse than having people come into a program, whether it's a, a free masterclass or a Mastermind or a group or anything that you're offering, and someone's come in and gone.

Oh, but I thought, duh, duh. And really, it's not, it's not what you're offering. So it is far better to let people know what you offer, how you offer it, and what it not, what it's not offering.

Tiffany Rochester: It really is. And I, and I think sometimes I've had conversations with, um, other psychologists about whether what I offer would be suitable for intact parents who want to co-parent.

Yeah. Better together. And, and if you look at what I offer, the answer is, it's yes, uh, it is, it's still looking at good conflict resolution, good communication skills, uh, good, good safeguarding of healthy development of children. That's, that that's applicable no matter how you're raising your kids. But if I'm trying to speak [00:25:00] to intact families, raising children in one home at the same time as speaking to separated families, raising children across two homes, my message is gonna get so wishy-washy and all over the place, and there are plenty of people serving.

Parents raising kids in one home. Yes. So I don't need to worry about those people. Do they need help? And resourcing, of course. Raising kids, raising kids in 2024 is a tricky, tricky time. Mm-hmm. But I, I don't need to be the one that serves all of them. And I'm better if I choose not to be.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Mm-hmm. A hundred percent.

And your niche is across two homes. So that's what you do and you're doing it well.

Tiffany Rochester: Thank you. I certainly hope that all of my clients agree.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: I'm thinking they are. I'm thinking they are. So let, let's talk about, um, the training that you offer. Did you find these programs, well, I guess we've covered it a little bit, I suppose, but easy to put together?

Or was it, I guess because you've got all the knowledge

mm-hmm.

And so, [00:26:00] mm-hmm. How, how was it for you to, to put together a group program to move from that one to one to to one to many? How was that for you?

Tiffany Rochester: It took a considerable amount of time for me to be reflecting on my data from my one to work to look at.

What is it that I'm consistently delivering? What is, what are the skill sets that are consistently missing? If I'm going to put a program together, what is it that is going to meet the bulk of their needs? And in what order do I need to present it in? 'cause as you say, when someone rocks up to you in a one-to-one, I have an idea about where that session is going.

But if they rock up and say, actually, I wanna take it over here or there, you can go down amazing garden paths and they can be therapeutically relevant and take you to great outcomes. When you are bringing a group together, you have to have a narrative arc and an a, b cd. Yes. [00:27:00] So that took, that took quite a bit of time and, and quite a lot of wrestling with what is it that I deliver that I think is so useful.

How come I am so confident that this is what is useful for co-parents and. Getting really clear on what my data was telling me. And I do, you know, I don't make any of this stuff up in the shower. This is, this is not, you know, the tiff's world. I, uh, am very much, um, uh, deeply embedded in the contextual behavioral science world.

So looking at how do we predict and influence behavior and how do we bring compassion to that space? So I know the volume of science that I sit across. But looking at how I'm applying that science to this population, and who am I to be doing that, and who am I to say this is a good application of it?

That was, that was quite, I was gonna say quite frightening. And it was, uh, but the question was how, how much, like how do I go about that? And how much time did it take? So it took, it, it did, it took quite a [00:28:00] lot of time in wrestling and, um, and e evolution. So my, my very first offer was. A membership that took people through various parts over the course of a a year.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: And it was only as I started to do that process and I went, this still doesn't feel efficient. This is, this is lovely for the day-to-day management, but how do I get something that is intensive and fast for the rapid shifts? And then people might need handholding for more of that process. Some people won't, but.

We can't say to people, you know, sign up for a year and in dribs and drabs you'll get what you need. So, so for anyone who's looking at starting out on this journey, I would say you'll give yourself permission for your first product to not be what you, your final one is going to look like it. It's only when we start getting out there and testing concepts with our audience.

Our audience will let us know very quickly when we are getting things right, when we're off the mark. But they'll also let us know far better than anything that we can figure out, [00:29:00] just arguing inside our own heads, trying to make sure that it's perfect before we put it out there.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Oh, yes. And as much as we'd like it to be perfect,

Tiffany Rochester: wouldn't we,

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: wouldn't we?

Um, nothing. Nothing ever is, and I think that once you are in a program as well, there's that aspect where yes, there's going to be those things that you cover. Often in a coaching mentoring space, it is that person asking questions and getting time to speak up about what's going on for them and the coach or mentor, being able to say, Hey, this is, this is what this is about, and then often.

The rest of the group get a whole lot from that because most of the time people are already thinking that they just haven't put their hand up or haven't raised the point yet.

Tiffany Rochester: Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. Thankfully there's a limited number of problems that we all have. Commonly, [00:30:00] yes. I dunno, that sentence came outta my mouth brilliantly, but yes, yes.

There is far more in common between each of us than what there is different.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Oh, that's right. Although we, we as people tend to think, oh, it just must be us. We just must be having this problem. I'm sure no one else has that problem. So in a group situation, it's actually a really good confidence builder to think, okay, well I'm not the only one contending with this and having challenges.

Tiffany Rochester: Yes, yes. Isn't that beautiful? Like how much, how relieving that is to go, I'm not alone and I'm not going crazy and I'm not failing at this because I'm having this problem. But, but you know, and I think about, uh, my school mom network has been. Absolutely vital for me. Mm. To rock up and have coffee with them every week.

I remember when my kids were in early primary school, how useful it was to know that actually all of the kids weren't eating their lunches that term. Mm. Or all of the kids were end of term ratty and tired, and that it wasn't that there was something horribly wrong going with my own little monsters.

They're not monsters, they're darlings, [00:31:00] but that actually this was just part of them having a normal childhood. Yes. So then in the niche that I'm working with, knowing that they're just having part of the normal separation experience. So this is just part of the trajectory that happens. It doesn't mean that they are failing or that their co-parent is dreadful or that their children are being massively harmed or damaged.

It just means they're going through a process at this time. And that a lot like, a lot like many other people's process.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Yeah. Which as we say is, is definitely comforting and often people. Stay friends after these programs and they have more support. So it, it's great stuff.

Tiffany Rochester: I feel really fierce about that, about building a community, building that connection.

Um, and I think particularly for this population, the idea of being able to collaboratively co-parent is not mainstream yet. And. So to be surrounded by a community of parents who are [00:32:00] choosing to collaborate, who are choosing to work together, and who are keeping each other strong in that, I think that is, that is absolutely vital.

And yes, I want those relationships to sustain long after they've left the co-parenting companion nest. Absolutely. Yeah.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think all of what you've talked about there is worth, its its weight in gold and thinking about it from your perspective as well. If you had to do this all over again, like move away from one to one, what's your biggest reflection of, what would you want people to know?

Hmm.

Tiffany Rochester: It's. You know, before you have kids, you think you've got an idea about what you're stepping into. Mm. And then after you've had them, you're like, I had no freaking idea. But if you told me, I wouldn't have believed it. But I also had no idea how much I was gonna love them. [00:33:00] Mm. I think, I think this is really similar.

So the first answer I came up with again was, it's not for the fainthearted. There is a lot of, there is a lot of work involved in it. Yes.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Mm.

Tiffany Rochester: There is nothing else that I wanna be doing. There is nothing else. Every time that I think about, if I had my time over, would I go back? If I had my time over, would I have chosen a different pivot?

Would I have stuck with one daughter? And I just think, there is no way, there is no way I would not choose this pathway every time. I think, I think what I would probably. If I could go back and talk to Tiff back there, then before she embarked on this. Apart from saying, darling, you don't know what you don't know and it's all gonna be fine.

Mm yes. Is, is to say, be really gracious with yourself. That it does take time. You're not gonna be, nobody is an overnight success in business. And to remember that it [00:34:00] took me six years of study and two years of. Supervised practice and then a whole heap of PD and training to get to my level of competence as a clinical psychologist.

And that when you're pivoting into the coaching space or the one to many space, you have to give yourself that same permission to, to learn to not know everything yet. And it doesn't mean that you're a failure, it just means you're doing something new and you gotta give yourself a bit of time.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Absolutely. And also that's how we do learn. By, we won't say necessarily, failure is a word we would use, but through making different choices, perhaps making the odd mistake here and there, or maybe it's a big one, we learn from it and then we move forward. So all data, that's essential, isn't it? All essential?

Yes. Yes. It's, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I can't [00:35:00] believe how quickly our time has gone together. This has been an an amazing. Chat today. And I feel like there's a lot of sites out there who would get a whole lot from this. So thank you so, so much and tell me if people would like to work with you, what's the the best and easiest way to find you?

Tiffany Rochester: Uh, so our website is Co-parenting companion au. There is a Contact Us form on there, or you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. It's just at co-parenting Companion or search my name in Google, Tiffany Rochester. Thankfully there's not many of me, so I, I come up pretty quickly in Google. Yes. And uh, yes, please reach out if you've listened to this podcast and that's how you found me, I would love to know.

And then Kirsten, I would love to let you know that that's. Uh, that you know, that that's the kind of reach that your podcast is having. I think it is such an important conversation, such important work. And it is, it is scary for individual practitioners. So I think that you're out there, um, putting this out to [00:36:00] the communities so they can hear it, hear examples, get ideas about how to do it.

I think it demystifies it and makes it so much reachable for people who are where, where I was, um, yeah, a couple years ago.

Kerstin Anderson-Ridge: Absolutely, no, I'm doing so well as well. And we will link all of that in the show notes as well so people will be able to to find you. So thank you so much, Tiffany and I will look forward to seeing everyone again soon.

Until next time, thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Private Practice Academy podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please head across and subscribe and leave me a review. That would mean the world to me. Also, feel free to come and hang out with me on Instagram at Kirsten Anson Ridge.