Navigating Separated Co-Parenting: An Overview

Hayley Quinn: Hi, this is Welcome to Self and I'm your host, Dr. Hayley Dequin. Fellow human business owner, clinical psychologist, and coach. Welcome to Self is a place where you can come and learn about the practices that assist us as humans. Realize that you are not alone in the ways you struggle and have your curiosity peaked on various.

As I chat to wonderful guests or bring you solo episodes, this is a place to remember that you are human first and have different roles in your life that need your attention, and for that you need to take care of yourself in the best way you can. My aim is that this is a place of nourishment growth.

And nurture a place where you can welcome yourself.

Hi. And welcome to another episode. I've been excited to bring you some more great guests this season, and my next guest is no exception. She is a warm, kind, compassionate, and very wise woman who I'm honored to call, not just my colleague, but my friend. I first met my next guest at an A-N-Z-A-C-B-S conference in Canberra and attended a workshop for women that she was co-hosting.

I was extremely resistant to attending this particular workshop due to some of my own history, but I knew that's what I needed to do, and believe me, I'm so thrilled that I did. I learned about myself, my connection with other women, and I'm happy to say the seeds of a beautiful friendship were planted.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you Tiffany Rochester. Steph is fierce about nurturing families and supporting parents so that children can grow up slowly in the warm safety of both parents. She has a long history of supporting families through complex situations, including working with families of juvenile offenders, families raising neurodivergent, sexual and gender minorities and families post-separation.

Fostering one family across two homes. She's the founding CEO of Co-Parenting Companion, a business which provides coaching support to separated co-parents with a focus on helping parents establish healthy boundaries and clear communication. To find collaborative solutions, TIFF is an experienced clinical psychologist and the past president of A-N-Z-A-C-B-S.

And for any of you who have heard Tiff speak before, you already know how passionate and inspiring she is. It's my great pleasure to have her join me on the podcast. I hope you love this episode as much as I loved chatting with Tiff.

So hi, TIFF. It's an absolute pleasure. I'm, I'm really excited about having you on the podcast, so thank you so much for agreeing to come on.

Tiffany Rochester: Thank you, Hayley. I'm really excited to be here too. I've been really looking forward to it.

Hayley Quinn: That's fantastic. So perhaps could you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and what it was that actually attracted you into the helping professions?

Tiffany Rochester: Yeah, so who I'm today is, um, I'm a, a clinical psychologist and I also, uh, work in the coaching sphere. Um, I'm a mom, um, to, to gorgeous kids. Um, and I am a great lover of karaoke. Um, in terms of how I got here into the helping profession, that story goes back to when I was 13 years old. Um. I, I knew then that I wanted to be a psychologist, so one of those weird freaks about being clear early and whilst the topography of, um, how I do my career has changed over the years, one of the things I find interesting in reflecting on that is that my core mission has never changed.

I, I, you know, had this sense then that. Um, the, the teen is, are, are rough and indeed, you know, mine were as, as many people as are. And um, and I wanted to go back and serve teens. And that the only part of that that's, that shifted is, is a build out into teens and children. Yeah,

Hayley Quinn: yeah, yeah. Fantastic. And you've recently made some changes in your business.

Released a new service called Co-Parenting Companion. Can you tell us a bit more about this? What was it that led you to this and where do you see yourself heading with this new direction?

Tiffany Rochester: Yes, I'm so excited to talk about this.

So, um, there, there's kind of a, a long story and, and a short story to companion and I'm not good telling the short story, so I, I will try the slightly longer version.

Um, so. I, I have always. As I mentioned, had this, this calling, this drive to serve teens and children. And, uh, in the start of my career, I, I was working with the families of repeat juvenile offenders, and that was a fantastic grounding space for me. The, the, the best developmental space, I think for an early clinician.

It tuned me in straight away to how important it is to work with a family. Yeah. And to work with context that if I'm serious about shaping the lives of teenagers and children

Hayley Quinn: mm-hmm.

Tiffany Rochester: I have to be working with the caregivers. Yeah. '

Hayley Quinn: cause

Tiffany Rochester: they're the greatest agents of change changed in that context and that that shift to seeing context.

I was gonna say when you learn to see those 3D images, but I actually don't have any depth perception and so I actually can never see those 3D images. Um, but, but, but once you see, see context, you can't go back to seeing the individual. And that's, uh, really shaped everything from there. Um, and then as I've gone through various, um, ways of serving families, uh.

Around 10 years ago ago, I started working with separated families. And the way that those kind of fell into my practice, um, was through court referrals. And these were, uh, people who had been locked in the family court system sometimes for, you know, seven to 10 years at the outside. The, the state of those family systems was, was just, uh, heartbreaking because they spent hundreds and thousands of dollars in litigation.

That alone is, is just awful. Our outside of that was the enormous amounts of stress and tension and conflict that had marked all of those years. And so I would get these referrals for these families, and it felt like. You know, the last ditch effort, once, once the courts had kind of thrown their hands in the air and, and said, we have no idea what to do with these families.

Uh, then it occurred to them that maybe they'd call in a therapist and it's kind of like it's too late. Like court should not.

Thankfully there, there are many people agitating for, for change. And so in the time that I was working that space, I noticed that the referrals would, would start to come in earlier in the piece and that, um, be as part of the dispute resolution process, families would still be referred in for, for therapy.

Um, a as an earlier point. But even so, it still felt. Too late in the piece. These people had had to go through too much, and the volume of work, therefore for them and for the therapist is enormous. The truth of it is that I, in working in that space with the number of families that I was carrying, I hit burnout.

I had to figure out what to do with that because I had this such a desire to really resource and support these families. Yep. But I had to do it in a way that was also serving for me and I wanted to get in earlier. Sorry. I did tell you it was a long backstory. That's totally,

Hayley Quinn: totally fine. I think, you know, it's fascinating and I think, you know, it's really challenging work as well as now.

I'm glad you bring up this point about burnout and having to do this in a way that suits you because, you know, therapy work is challenging work anyway. And then the work you were doing when people are embroiled in this legal system and conflict is really tricky. And of course that's gonna take its toll on you.

So please feel free to expand your story. It's, it's great.

Tiffany Rochester: Thanks so much Hayley. So, yes, within that, um, I had to really look at knowing that I love working with systems.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: And, um, I. I find there's something really quite, um, humbling and sacred about being permitted into that space with families. I just wanted to get in there earlier and, uh, and, and work more at that prevention right at the, the starting points of separation, because I know that if we start there, there is.

With so many of the parents that I was working with in those later stages, they had the, the most beautiful intentions for their children. They wanted to have a collaborative relationship with their co-parent, or at least they had in a previous version of themselves. And they definitely wanted to do what was best for their children.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: And so when we get in earlier in the piece before that, that huge history of, of, um, um.

Then there's so much more space to look at. How do we set up separation for success so that people can. Into the lives that they need to be building for themselves in a way that is really healthy for themselves and healthy for their children. And so co-parenting companion then, uh, sits in that coaching space, not a therapy because we're not, uh, working in that mental health space, but rather looking at really practical, pragmatic strategies to get that system working so that we can have.

One family across two homes, and the children can thrive and the parents can spend all of their lovely money on their children and themselves and their holidays and, and enjoy, enjoy the new pathways forward.

Hayley Quinn: Oh my gosh, te it's just such fantastic work and, and so needed. I think it's just beautiful what you're doing now, given the statistics on relationship separation and divorce.

Given that helping professionals are humans who are not immune to life challenges, I imagine there are likely many listeners who are navigating co-parenting themselves whilst also managing the challenging client work that they do. This can be really tough work on a good day. Like I said before, like what we do is hard work.

And even more so when we're facing personal challenges, what do you tend to see as the most common themes or challenges that people face, and how might that be amplified for our helping professionals? Yeah,

so I think one of the, one of oh one.

Tiffany Rochester: I think a lot of it is, is the level of distress at the same time as trying to hold everything together. So there's, you know, that that sense of, in, in the media term, this life that we thought we were living is falling apart or it has to change in a very, very major way. And so not only. Not only is the person trying to kind of manage their way through that transition, but trying to make sense of what are the finances going to look like, uh, how, how do I make space in my heart, uh, for my child to have some nights at a home that is not mine?

And stepping through. What, what is, what is right in that? How? How do we get that balance so that the child's needs are met and what is that supposed to look like and how often do we do handovers and who's going to live where, and what's this gonna mean for the children schooling? But oh my gosh, I have to keep working.

'cause now the financial situation has changed. Yeah. And everything's on the line. I, I see so much for these families in those early stages of really wrestling with wanting to do the right thing, but either not knowing what it is or, or having some quite understandably, distorted views about what that is.

Because unfortunately, as, as you would know. When we look at what exists in, in our television shows and, and in our movies, um, in our books, in the places where we get our narratives about how to do life,

Hayley Quinn: yeah,

Tiffany Rochester: there are not good models of how to. Separate and co-parent. Well, like I get so excited when I, when I see tiny examples of them on shows and I share them with my members to go like, like, like this.

Yeah, this is a good example because they're few and far between. So, so then if we bring that back to our helping professionals, I think it, I think it adds in such a. So many layers of complexity there. I think, um, years ago when I worked in the, the perinatal space, one of the things that uh, really sat with me was how much, um, pediatric nurses and school teachers were at higher risk of, um, perinatal anxiety and depression.

And, and some of the thinking around that was because in their professional lives. That was their jam. And so they felt outta place. And, and then the same obviously applies to, to us as therapists is, is making sense of who am I in the context of a relationship that's separating? What, what does this say about me in my personal life and in my professional life?

I, I think we're not always, we're often not good. Extending to ourselves the same grace and compassion to be human and to not have all the answers as we do to other people. And we know statistically, and, and if I could keep numbers in my head, I would tell you, but, um, maybe you know them. Statistically, helping professionals are less likely to get help when we need it.

Shame factor there, and we.

Along with how do you find somebody that, that, that you trust that isn't already a, a friend or someone you're gonna sit next to at every PD event? Yeah,

Hayley Quinn: absolutely. So many complexities, isn't it? And that sense, I think you may raise really good points around, I'm a, I'm a therapist, I should know how to manage this.

Um, and people, it is a barrier to them reaching out and finding help. You know, these things become opportunities for the self critic to jump in.

Tiffany Rochester: Absolutely. Yeah. So much so I, I, yeah, that, that shame space and that judgment space. Yeah. Yeah,

Hayley Quinn: absolutely. But keep, keep going with what you're saying. I kind of jumped in on you there a bit.

Tiffany Rochester: Well, I was just thinking about that, um, that tension of, um, yeah, I think we, we all experienced that at the start of the pandemic when all of a sudden. Every client that came in to see us was dealing with the same crisis that we were having ourselves. And, and I remember that kind of, that sense of like, like, like what even is this, that I have to get myself ready?

I, you know, I have to figure out what I'm doing around my decision making every day and then, and then show up for, for my clients to hold space for them to process that. And so I, I think within that, that pressure of. Can I take time off work? Can I honor the process that I need at the same time as I'm feeling pressure to earn money?

Um, which is a very legitimate need, right?

Hayley Quinn: Yeah, absolutely.

Tiffany Rochester: And, and, and then yeah, to be able to look at how do I, how do I hold the space for the people that I serve whilst my own life is going through so much turmoil and disruption?

Hayley Quinn: It's so tricky, isn't it? And you imagine that you're going through a separation, you're trying to navigate this, and then the next client that walks in the door sits down and tells you that their relationship has just broken up and they dunno how they're going to manage the children.

Now you can't help but relate to that. I mean, that's exactly what you're going through in your own life. And I think this is where if you can't take time out when these things, whether it is that or a different type of challenge, if you can't take the time out and have some time away from work. Making sure that you've got some support can then help you navigate that in between times, you know, can help you feel more resourced as you have to sit with your clients.

Yeah. 'cause like you say, for some people taking time off work is not an option, so well have to keep working. Or it might even be, I actually have to work more now. Mm. So I think that sort of resourcing is so, so important. And like you say, complex. 'cause it can be tricky. 'cause oftentimes the people that you respect as other helping professionals are people who you know, and you can't go to see them.

So it can be, it can be difficult. It can be difficult, but not impossible. Not impossible.

Tiffany Rochester: No, that's right. And I look and I just wanna throw in there as well, because, because of that huge financial stress that sits there so hard and fast and early is, is one of the things I really wanna encourage people in that very early stage is.

Get some really good financial advice. Meet with your accountant as soon as possible and meet with the financial advisor and, and if you don't have those people in your life, uh, the Collaborative Professionals Network, uh, which they, they have their website, I think it's collaborative professionals com au.

You can look for people who are financial neutrals, so they are. Trained in collaborative practice, trained in helping people separate well and fairly in a collaborative manner outside of court, and they can very quickly give that information about, uh, what, what financial arrangement can you reasonably predict is going to happen as you move through the settlement.

What are some good transition arrangements on your way there? And from that financial planning perspective, uh, looking at. How you can move your money to support yourself, because maybe some of that sense of I can't afford this and I have to work more. Maybe some of that's a story and maybe the people that have the expertise in that area can throw you some lifelines.

You dunno. Are there.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. Oh, TIFF. Thank you. That's fantastic. And I, and I wonder when we put stuff of your links in the show notes, if we might add that as well, because what a fantastic resource that that might be for people listening. Oh, yes. Because those are the things I think people don't necessarily think about.

You think about it, we're in our head. Threat system when we're under challenges like this. Um, and when we know when we're in our threat system, we don't think clearly. Um, so, you know, being made aware of things like this is, is fantastic. So thanks for sharing that. So I, I'm also wondering like, how can working with someone like yourself assist people when they're managing a situation such as co-parenting?

And this is a bit of different, um. Sorry, a bit of a two part question, and also can you offer our listeners any kind of tips in terms of how they could help themselves here, as well as that wonderful financial one Collaborative professionals com. I think you said,

Tiffany Rochester: isn't it, isn't it it a great name, collaborative professionals?

Like, it just sums up the, the whole, the whole way that, that I would want people to be able to step through, um, a separation. Um. Which now means I've lost track of the question. It was around how, how, so how working,

Hayley Quinn: how can working with someone like you assist people when they're managing a situation like this?

And are there any little tips you could just share today?

Tiffany Rochester: Yes. So I, I think one of the, the biggest helps is having a neutral. Uh, and that can be a neutral, whether in, in my role, I can either work just with, um, one co-parent who is, um, desiring to be collaborative or there is the option for me to work with, uh, both co-parents together.

It, it is a requirement. That both of them do want to work collaboratively and are interested in, uh, reflecting on their own behaviors and how they can change what they are doing to make that system work well. So then in terms of what that neutral role provides is when, when families separate there, there's no part of their system that is untouched.

And, and that would probably, one of the, the things that I would hear the most is this permeates every part of their lives. And so then the friends that they go to for advice and support the family members, they, they all have opinions and, and those opinions aren't always the ones that are going to be.

Useful for the, for the new family system. Uh, you know, we, we often watch families and, and friends, you know, kind of, kind of protectively close in a around that, you know, they feel that, they feel that sense of, you know, pick aside and, and they can close ranks. That's what the phrase I was looking for. And so, yeah.

I, I hear those conversations often. I, I either when I'm out, um, socially or I hear them from the people that I serve around some really bad advice that gets, gets shared. So one of the things that can be so useful is to, to be able to bounce those ideas. Uh, just be able to say, look, you know, um, professor be able to turn up and say, I'm really concerned about how my kid is, is going.

I don't know. Uh, um, they're really closely connected to me. They've never had nights away from me. I'm their primary carer. So I think they should have these many nights with me and maybe only those many nights with my co-parent and straight away. We're able to bounce with what does the data tell us Yeah.

Is developmentally appropriate and useful. Um, what do we know about, uh, how to facilitate a beautiful relationship with both parents? Um, so short cutting a whole heap of that massive amount of, you know, kind of lit reviews around, around literature. I, I, I would, I would hope also many of these families that this is the, the only time that they have to.

Do this. Um, and we know for some families they, they might have to do it a couple of times.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: But in my role, I sit with a data set of hundreds of families, and not just the hundreds of families I've served, but also, you know, that that's part of my job is to stay on top of the literature, to stay on top of, uh, what is developmentally appropriate and sound so that we can step through.

What are the decisions that are gonna safeguard the development of the children? We know that around 80% of kids are going to be just fine. They're gonna be completely indistinguishable from kids that grow up in intact families. We can help families get there faster.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah,

Tiffany Rochester: by looking at. The data that as it applies to their family.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. So taking that kind of emotion and, and a particular agenda out that, that family members or friends may have. Um, and coming to them with the facts and being supportive in that way. When you were talking before, um, couple of things. I think raises the, the stuff as well around when you were saying about, you know, friends kind of have this thing about picking a side, and I think it's acknowledging, isn't it, that there's more than just the loss of.

A relationship or a marriage. Um, yes, there, it does trickle out into so many areas. So there's so much to be dealing with. You also mentioned at the beginning that you'll, you can work with somebody individually that would like to collab, uh, collaboratively co-parent, or you can work with two people who are willing to do that.

So I suppose that raises, um, that not everybody has a co-parent. Is willing to collaborate or is safe to do that with. Um, so can you speak a little bit to the work? You, you would also work with an individual. How, in what way would you do that if the other person isn't going to be collaborative?

Tiffany Rochester: Yeah. So thankfully there is, there is so much that can still be done in that setting.

Um, one of the things that I think is crucial is that often when we're looking at, uh, somebody who desires to be collaborative, who's co-parenting against someone who, um, whose context has, has led them to be more of a, a high conflict or a difficult to collaborate with person, um, is knowing that. If a child has an authoritative, uh, an authoritative relationship with one parent, if, if they have a safe connection where they can, uh, freely express themselves and, and feel loved and have boundaries held in a, in a firm and caring way, if one parent is able to provide that space, the data tells us that child is gonna be.

Okay, like that is, that is enough to protect the child. So, so even just from a starting point with a parent who desires to be collaborative, to take the pressure off that if the other parent is messing up a huge amount in what they're doing and that sits outside of the collaborative parents power to change that.

If they just focus on what they doing in their time with the children, that's. And then there's more. So there's, there's a lot that we can do around, uh, look, working in two spaces. I'm gonna go with two for now, but my brain often comes up with many more along the way.

Hayley Quinn: That's fine. One

Tiffany Rochester: those, one of those is, is, is really working hard on looking at how do you co-parent well.

With a parent you've got rather than the one you wish you had. Yeah. And so that can, right, because there can be so much if it's not fair and I shouldn't have to, and they should and, and, and all of that is correct often, but none of that changes anything. And so instead, what we wanna look at is, given that this is who you've got, what do you know?

About how to bring out the best in them. What do you know about how to shape your requests to make it more likely that you can get them to a yes? And that's not about a, a, a foreign response or a, an acquiescing response. You know, looking at how do you have the firm boundaries that you want to hold. Um, but, but within that, looking at how do you stay aligned.

To your values, who you care to be. Yeah. In the context that you're dealing with. And so often that opens up a whole heap of possibilities about different ways of communicating back to this difficult person. And that alone can create some shifts. And then the other piece in there is around. Developing those self care boundaries.

How do, how do we structure your day and your week and your year so that there are this compartments where you interact with your co-parent, but the rest of your life is not? Um, is, is. Tarnished, tainted with, with it, it doesn't flavor every other part of your life. So how do we put in boundaries that you get to have regardless of whether or not your co-parent wants you to have them?

Hayley Quinn: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: And how do, how do we develop skills for managing your own distress, your own fight flight, when that's triggered, so that. You can move your way back to being the person that you wanna be with your children, with your colleagues, with your new partner, if there is one with your friendship group, so that your life is defined by how you want to be living it and not the hell that your co-parent might wanna have you in.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. Gosh, it's such, it's just such beautiful work. Much needed work that you're doing. So thank you. Um, where were you when I was, uh, needing you, but I think it's fantastic the work you're doing. So if you have diversity within your practice, are you still seeing clinical clients as well? You're still doing some therapy work and coaching?

Or have you moved? Yeah, I do.

Tiffany Rochester: I carry a small clinical caseload, yes.

Hayley Quinn: So you've got the diversity, which I know for many people can be really helpful. I certainly find it helpful for myself. Well, what have you found most challenging about diversifying and changing the focus of your work? Because I think a lot of people who are in the helping professions who a bit scared of making change, um, and or, or kind of question these things.

So what have you actually found the most challenging about it?

Yes, I think,

Tiffany Rochester: I think part of it is around, um, you know, uh, professional identity mm-hmm. And, um, and who you see yourself as. And so for me, part of it was looking at, um, the way that I really wanted to serve co-parents. Didn't fit beautifully within our psychology model.

Yeah. And excuse me, as I shared with you, I, I'd wanted to do that, that since 13, so the identity of being a psychologist is one that is woven deep in my history.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: So part of the challenge was looking at what does it mean if I'm doing coaching? What, what is, what is it to be a coach? And kind of shifting that.

Perspective. And I think for me, like I, I do love, I, I, I do love diversity. I do love, you know, working with a whole range of different people and, and way of beings. And yet for me, one of my challenges and an important process to go through was actually looking at how to, how to be clearer about who it is that I really care to serve.

As I asked myself that question more, there were, there were two, kind of two areas that really stood out for me. And, and one is obviously this co-parenting space.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah.

Tiffany Rochester: Um, and the other is I, I have a, a, a deep love and joy in serving, uh, neurodivergent, um, children, teens, and adults. And I found that I. I, I didn't want to give that up.

Yeah. Um, and then if I look at those, for me, I look at, um, thankfully there. There are more and more and more neurodivergent affirming, um, therapists, um, coming out and stepping up and, um, advocating in this space and working well in this space. So when I looked at my balance of skills and energy, um, I knew that I didn't want to, I didn't wanna leave that work.

I really quite love it. Yeah. But I could make a choice for that to be a smaller part of what I do. Yeah. Because the, the unserviced population is our separated co-parents, that that's not where we get a lot of early intervention support.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. Fantastic. So given um, all the different roles that you have both in your work and your personal life, um, you are as human as the next person, how do you take care of yourself?

You mentioned self care when you're working with a co, you know, separated parent, but how do you take care of yourself?

Tiffany Rochester: Yes. You know, with varying degrees of success, if you spoke to my partner, um,

Hayley Quinn: and we could all say that, couldn't we?

Tiffany Rochester: Um, and, and yeah, look, I, there, there are practices in, in current hits life that were definitely not there in past hits life.

And, and I'm so, I'm so grateful to the, to the previous versions of me that have built those in. So, um. One of the things that my body taught me, I, I, I, I live with a chronic pain condition. And, um, whilst there's parts of that that completely suck, and I, I would never recommend it for anybody. Yeah. I feel like my body saying, you know, TIFF, self-care is not negotiable.

Prioritizing, prioritizing you first is not negotiable. So, uh, for me, my day has to start with yoga. And, um, I, I am aware that not being a morning person, if I haven't. If I have an early morning, um, uh, something shared in because of somebody else's time zone that, um, that yoga's probably the first thing that slips.

But, um, but that early morning yoga to, to start that, you know, putting that first before I wake the children, before I get on with the school lunches is this essential part. Um, I mentioned at the start that. I have a great love of karaoke and um, I think everyone who knows me knows this because it kind of leaks out of every, every part of me.

And so within that, I know that I love to sing. So if I'm having a hard day, sometimes it is just, I just need to put on some music and sing my heart out, and I love. Karaoke nights and a karaoke night might be just, um, just our little family, which is great 'cause it means that the mic comes to me one in four or, or having friends around and, um, uh, there's something so energizing and, uh, I, I, I, I love, I love.

Singing with others, and I love watching, um, you know, my friends and my loved ones find, find their voice in music and find their confidence to, um, I mean, singing is so woven into the fabric of, of who we are and how we communicate as. As humans. Um,

Hayley Quinn: oh gosh, TIFF, uh, you talking about, this is taking me back to when we met in Canberra and your passion for singing.

Now I love to sing. I cannot sing well. I used say I can't sing, but everyone can sing. I just can't sing Well, um, but your passion. Was so infectious that you had me up on stage in Canberra singing in public.

Yes.

Tiffany Rochester: What? Oh my gosh. And that song, I mean, I, that, that was,

that was incredible. And that song, every time I hear it, it, it makes me cry.

Um, thinking about all of us up there and, um, and allowing our voices to be heard.

Hayley Quinn: I see the emotion coming for you now. Yeah. As you're talking. Yeah. No, that was very beautiful. It was, uh, it was, it was fun. That was a fun conference. That was, um, absolutely. So those ways you take care of yourself. I wonder if, like, if you had a separated.

Co-parent that happened to be a psychologist that came to you, what might you say to them in terms of what would be helpful for them when they're sitting in their therapy chair, they've got all this going on and they're, they're having to work with clients. Is there anything you'd kind of say to them that could be helpful for them to hold in mind or to practice or?

Tiffany Rochester: I'm, I'm laughing because I'm thinking about that part we talked about earlier where, where we can be so,

um, reticent to seek help for ourselves. And I think really what I would want to say is in addition to, you know, the very practical coaching skills of how to get yourself through the Coparenting experience.

If you haven't gifted yourself a therapist yet, my goodness me, now is the time because chances are, you know, a huge amount about how to ground your client and you know, a huge amount about how to help your client find self-compassion. You're probably great at leading a mindfulness script, um, but there is something so nourishing in being led.

And having somebody else step you through. And we might have so much of the head knowledge and we do, but, but spending time with somebody else to help you connect it through to your heart knowledge to not ask so much of yourself.

I, I, I mean in, in the very practical, if you're sitting there with a client, I think, I think, you know, looking at what have been this practices that have served you well in the past for grounding yourself, connecting yourself, bringing yourself present in the room. But to recognize that the first two years after separation, uh, and it is, is two years, is how long we expect things to go.

Kind of o offline and a bit haywire for. That's how big a shift it is. So, yeah. So gift yourself some support that is just for you early. Because you, you're really, really worth it. And if you don't think you're worth it, your clients are, and your clients will do better if you serve yourself first.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah, absolutely.

I truly believe that. Do you know, I think it's really, really good that you say that, that there's this expectation of two years for things to transition. Because I think in many domains people are very quick to be like, you know, it's been a few months. I should be over this by now. Or I, it's been a few months.

I should know how to do all this by now. And I think when we can take this kind of bigger perspective of actually this is going to be a couple of years of your life transitioning into a new identity.

Yes.

A new way of being, A new way of. You know, working within your family and with your ex partner. Um, so thanks for sharing that.

I think those are the things sometimes that people will hear and go, oh. It's only been six months for me. Of course, I'm still feeling, you know, this is where I should be right now in this turmoil.

Tiffany Rochester: Yes. It turn, it turns out I'm, I'm at exactly at the developmental stage I'm supposed to be in.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. But I think that's really valuable 'cause we don't talk about those things, do we?

And in lots of different areas we don't talk about it. It's almost like, okay, well everyone else knows that that happened for you. They're all moving on with their life. How come you are still dealing with this? It's like, because that is what you're dealing with, that is the life that you have.

Tiffany Rochester: That's right.

And I think also the, the pressure is often, you know, and, and looking at how the children are going because there's so much anxiety for parents around whether the kids are going okay. And so, so often, you know, there's kind of, even in separation, there's, there's a honeymoon period where the children are, you know, they're, they're, they're doing okay with the arrangement, whatever it is, of moving between two.

So parents can go into this kind of false sense of like, well, we've nailed it. Look, look, look, we've done it. And then, and then that honeymoon period is done where the kid's like, oh, oh, but this is our actual life now. And, and we'll see, you know, we'll see a spike in, in their distress and their behaviors.

And so to know that, well, that, that's just normal. Like, you know, that doesn't mean, that doesn't mean you suddenly have to change the way that you're doing shared care. Um, your transition days are hell, transition days are hell. It, it doesn't, it doesn't mean that you are, um, doing yeah, the, the wrong shared care or that, that your children aren't okay with the arrangement that you've got.

It just probably means that your early days and you're still learning as a system, all of the skills, the new skills that you need for that system to thrive.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. Again, such a helpful thing, I think for people to hear. It's hell not because you're doing it wrong, but because that's how it is at the start.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I just, you know, I just think about the work you do with these co-parents allows them to parent differently, perhaps more effectively, um, perhaps in a calmer way. Not always, of course, nobody's perfect. Let's just put that out there. Um, absolutely. But then perhaps the trajectory for those children in terms of their wellbeing and mental health is a different one.

Tiffany Rochester: Mm. Yeah. You know, that's why I love so much in this space is, you know, we're changing. We're changing the trajectories for these kids, and we're changing theories. I, you know, it's often the, the problems, the conflicts that were involved in the relationship ending, you know, that there're often things that, that, that, that formed in childhood before the relationship even happened.

And, and, you know, it comes back to what was modeled from parents and, and from parents, from grandparents. Like, I look at this and this is, this is shifting. Generational patterns and, um, you know, I am, I, I'm someone who's fascinated by the kind of the, the epigenetic kind of impacts of, um, of, of shifting how we communicate and how we relate, um, you know, to the generation above us and the generation below us.

And, and I, I just get so excited about, about these parents being able to have a different relationship. Children and then going forward, their adult children compared to what was available for them with their own parents. And then also looking at what might. Change might change as they learn, might change as they learn these new processes in this new family system.

What also might change, even going back to their parents if their parents are still here. I'm sorry, I've just gone off on a tangent of stuff that gets me really excited.

Hayley Quinn: No, it's absolutely fine. I, I just, you know, your, you passion in all the things you do and that, that's what I know of you. You're a very passionate woman and I think it's fantastic, and your passion in your work means you are going to impact.

So many lives and make such a difference in this space. And it's such an important space because, you know, reaching things that help children helps adults. Right. Um, yeah. I think the work you're doing is absolutely beautiful. So now I have more of a question for you, and I ask this to everybody, and this is my favorite question I ask on the podcast.

If you could meet your 80-year-old self, what do you think she would say to you?

Hmm.

After you've done karaoke together. Of course,

Tiffany Rochester: yeah. That would be so fun. Actually, here's,

Hayley Quinn: here's an additional question. What is the karaoke song that you would sing with your 80-year-old self first, and then what would she say to you?

Tiffany Rochester: Oh, good lord, that's not fair. Hayley. I've always sing together. Um oh. Oh, no, I don't know. It would be, it would be a show tune.

It would be something from Broadway. Um, but no, I'm, you, I'm gonna reflect on that question and um, and when I figure it out, I'll, I'll, I'll pop it up on socials. Um, um, but I think, yeah, I, I, I was thinking about this because I, I know you asked this question and, um. And so I spent some time kind of picturing what she might have to say to me, and it was really interesting because what I heard her say is, you've got time and it's

Hayley Quinn: okay to slow down.

Mm. Um, and yeah, I love that. I think most people that have heard me speak about anything now that I love that sort of thing of slow down. Slow down, tune in.

Um, yeah. That's lovely.

Yeah.

So if people want to find out more about you or get in touch, where can they find you and engage with you and your work?

You mentioned socials and you have a fantastic Instagram, um, where you put up some really great videos actually. Um, even though I'm not co-parenting and I have an adult child at this point, um, you put up some great videos for people around how to navigate. Some of the situations or conversations. So I'd strongly suggest people do follow you on Instagram.

Um, you're probably on Facebook as well, but I tend to hang out on Instagram a.

Tiffany Rochester: Yes, we often have kind of our, our favorite go to, don't we? Um, and, and I really appreciate your feedback on those videos because it was, uh, certainly one of the blocks that I had to get over is that if I, if I am serious about working in this space, I have to let people know that I'm there and I want to make it so easy.

To know whether I'm the right fit for them. Um, and, uh, and so, so I had to get over myself, get outta my own way to, to start putting those videos up there. Um, so those, uh, so on Insta I'm at Co-parenting companion and, uh, and very helpfully on Facebook, also at Co-Parenting Companion, and my website is co-parenting companion au.

Hayley Quinn: Fantastic. Fantastic. Yeah, I think, you know, we, we have these things that, this is the work I do and this is what I'd like to offer to the world and this is, you know, the area I wanna work in. And then we sit in our office and don't tell anyone, which probably isn't very helpful. So I think that's great that you overcame that.

I know for me, kind of doing more videos and stuff was, was a, a process to get through, but, um, it's all doable, right.

Tiffany Rochester: It's, and I, I think it's making that shift of, you know, we, we feel so awkward about, oh, I can't, I can't market, you know, I, I, I can't sell myself, but, but neither you or I are are, you know, selling ourselves there.

There's a mission that, that we have, there's a calling that we want to answer. Nobody can be served if we don't tell them that we are here serving.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. Well I'm so glad that you are out there and, and you have those things that people can access. 'cause I just think what you're offering is fantastic and like I say, you know, as helping professionals, we're not immune to life challenges.

I'm sure there's many people, um, who tune in that will be navigating this. Um, or have navigated this or unfortunately may have to navigate this in the future. Um, so thank you for the work you do. Just to end, if you were only able to give one piece of advice, and I know that's a kind of hard to distill things down to one thing, what would you most want our listeners to take away from our conversation today?

Um, to don't do this alone. Yeah. There is plenty of resourcing out there. Don't do this alone. It

Tiffany Rochester: takes a village for everything in life. So connecting with yours.

Hayley Quinn: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good point. It's like often people are like, what support do my children need? What support do my children need? It's like, well, ask yourself as well.

Again, slow down, tune in and ask yourself, what support do I need as well? Yeah. Tiff, it's been an absolute pleasure chatting with you. I have no doubt that people will get a lot from this episode. Thank you so much for being here with me. It's really been fun.

Tiffany Rochester: Oh, Heidi, thank you. It's been such a privilege.

I. My heart is so full at getting time to just speak to my passion and then to be able to spend time with you, particularly to have this conversation. Uh, I've been looking forward to this so much and it's been a complete delight. Thank you. Thank you for having me on here.

Hayley Quinn: Thanks so much. Take care. Bye.